I just finished watching it. A very interesting question... My opinion, however, is little to give since I am still a teenager, but I would say let it be. Unless they are a friend then you can enter a debate, but acknowledge beforehand that this should not affect any friendship. If they push for it, just let them have their say, you're not going to... Read More... Read More change their mind in 12 minutes or sooner, they don't want to hear your opinion unless it’s theirs in your words. So why bother getting into a fight? Let them have their opinion and reply with a “That’s a matter of opinion, but I see your point.” There's my 2 cents.
Time for big sis to weigh in. :-) In my humble opinion, I think you're taking this way too seriously. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and peoples standards of excellence certainly differ. You probably feel this way because movies are so important to you, however this can't be said of everyone. That's the great thing about the similarities and differences in mankind, we filter things through our life experience and standards of importance. While it may be essential for you to respect Hitchcock, even though you aren't paticuraly fond of his movies, others might not see the need to treat Bergman the same way. I'd just let it be. In the long run it really doesn't matter if whether or not a random man in a pretzel shop thinks Bergman is a legend or not.
You know, I'm reminded of something Stephen Colbert said once. "Who's Britannica to tell me that the Panama Canal was built in 1914? If I want to believe that it was built in 1941, that's my right as an American!"
While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you guys that the guy in the pretzel shop isn't someone that it would have been good to get into an argument with, at the end of the day, he was playing fast and loose with the facts. Facts, not opinion. Facts. That Bergman was a very influential filmmaker is well-documented, and, as such, he was stating something that goes beyond his own opinion on Bergman's work.
My question goes a bit beyond that one person though. I'm referring to something a bit more in the general sense, as it's much more likely that you and I might encounter a conversation like this in a somewhat more serious, prolonged conversational setting, unless, of course, we all become frequenters of pretzel shops and carry signs with argumentative slogans.
Little Dreamer, I find it interesting that you think that I'm taking it "way too seriously." It's a matter of preference and what is important to a given person that defines what they take seriously. While I know that you wouldn't really be bothered by someone slagging an artist like Bergman, I have heard you become rather excited about different topics related to the 2nd World War. In fact, I seem to remember you becoming agitated about how someone might hold a certain set of views when you were convinced that said views were clearly inaccurate. Ah, passions are passions, are they not?
Eamons, you might be surprised at what teenagers have to show the world. Sometimes, 2 cents from one of you is worth more than 20 bucks from someone much older.
A few things, unfortunately I don't have time to write a full response, I may do a blog post based on one of the ideas you bring up.
1 - "something that for him would have been obscure" - that made me laugh.
2 - Anthony Harvey http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0367431/
3 - You have to remember film like anything is an art and that means everyone thinks something different about the people that make it and what they like. We can have a more "educated" opinion but that doesn't make us right, it just makes it our responsibility to have a broader perspective on the world of cinema so we can see the millions of influences and how they affect things.
I'd type more but I am on my way out! Gotta go! I still wanna read one of your screenplays dude!
Thanks for clearing up the mysterious Harvey, Megan. After looking at his filmography, I'm even more puzzled by what the guy in the pretzel shop said. He edited a few landmark films, but, as a director, he only made 4 feature films. Out of those 4, The Lion In Winter would seem to be his greatest accomplishment.
'We can have a more "educated" opinion but that doesn't make us right, it just makes it our responsibility to have a broader perspective on the world of cinema so we can see the millions of influences and how they affect things.' You know, I agree with you on the whole, but, at the same time, my position isn't based solely on my own opinion. It's based on well-documented factual evidence. I can agree that not everyone has to like the same things and think the same way, but, having said that, certain things go beyond opinions.
For example, just because a certain mutual acquaintance hates the Beatles doesn't mean that his statement about them not being influential is accurate.
Opinion: Chubbs thinks that the Beatles' music is terrible and that they had no influence except on boy bands of the 1990's.
Fact: The Beatles were one of the defining bands of the 20th century, redefined rock and roll, and influenced thousands of people the world over, musicians and non-musicians alike.
I'm not saying that the first half of the opinion is invalid, because it's a value judgment, and, as such, isn't right or wrong because it varies from person to person. I can, however, take issue with the second half of that opinion because it's fundamentally inaccurate in an historical context.
That's all I'm saying about Bergman. No one has to like/dislike his films, but his influence has surpassed mere opinion, and, in light of historical evidence, has become fact.
...and I'm honored that something I said might inspire you to write an article.
It's because I've been dealing with some people at work and my movie tastes too. Don't know if I'll get around to writing it...
I think you also need to remember though you are assuming that this person has the same film education you do. You can't expect someone with a different background in film to know everything you know.
But I have heard a lot about Anthony Harvey being infleuntial before. I haven't seen it but I have been told Lion in Winter is a big deal.
I think that the answer to your question lies in a question. Honestly, the best way to discuss an issue is not by telling someone "Nope, you're wrong and here's why," even if you are right. Instead, challenge them to reflect upon and then articulate their own thoughts by asking them questions. For instance, "Why do you think that?" Or "Have you considered _________" I believe questions are usually better than propositions in this context because they promote conversation and not argumentation. When someone if questioned, it allows him or her to work through their thoughts and opinions, hopefully coming to a better understanding. Or maybe they will totally school you and you will end up with a better understanding. Anyway, that's my answer. :)
And p.s.: I've been told that Lion in Winter is an amazing film. (for what that's worth)
That guy should have at least spent more time backing up his claims. He sounds pretty pretentious.
It's not a matter of him stating an opinion, but it's a matter of stating a claim that goes against common agreement. Your Alfred Hitchcock comparison was well done. You may not enjoy his, but you cannot deny his influence).
11 comments:
I just finished watching it. A very interesting question... My opinion, however, is little to give since I am still a teenager, but I would say let it be. Unless they are a friend then you can enter a debate, but acknowledge beforehand that this should not affect any friendship. If they push for it, just let them have their say, you're not going to... Read More... Read More change their mind in 12 minutes or sooner, they don't want to hear your opinion unless it’s theirs in your words. So why bother getting into a fight? Let them have their opinion and reply with a “That’s a matter of opinion, but I see your point.” There's my 2 cents.
Time for big sis to weigh in. :-) In my humble opinion, I think you're taking this way too seriously. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and peoples standards of excellence certainly differ. You probably feel this way because movies are so important to you, however this can't be said of everyone. That's the great thing about the similarities and differences in mankind, we filter things through our life experience and standards of importance. While it may be essential for you to respect Hitchcock, even though you aren't paticuraly fond of his movies, others might not see the need to treat Bergman the same way. I'd just let it be. In the long run it really doesn't matter if whether or not a random man in a pretzel shop thinks Bergman is a legend or not.
And, that's my two cents on the subject.
I completely agree with Kira... I would add more, but she covered it all. *smile* if I can think of anything else, I'll send a note!
You know, I'm reminded of something Stephen Colbert said once. "Who's Britannica to tell me that the Panama Canal was built in 1914? If I want to believe that it was built in 1941, that's my right as an American!"
While I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you guys that the guy in the pretzel shop isn't someone that it would have been good to get into an argument with, at the end of the day, he was playing fast and loose with the facts. Facts, not opinion. Facts. That Bergman was a very influential filmmaker is well-documented, and, as such, he was stating something that goes beyond his own opinion on Bergman's work.
My question goes a bit beyond that one person though. I'm referring to something a bit more in the general sense, as it's much more likely that you and I might encounter a conversation like this in a somewhat more serious, prolonged conversational setting, unless, of course, we all become frequenters of pretzel shops and carry signs with argumentative slogans.
Little Dreamer, I find it interesting that you think that I'm taking it "way too seriously." It's a matter of preference and what is important to a given person that defines what they take seriously. While I know that you wouldn't really be bothered by someone slagging an artist like Bergman, I have heard you become rather excited about different topics related to the 2nd World War. In fact, I seem to remember you becoming agitated about how someone might hold a certain set of views when you were convinced that said views were clearly inaccurate. Ah, passions are passions, are they not?
Eamons, you might be surprised at what teenagers have to show the world. Sometimes, 2 cents from one of you is worth more than 20 bucks from someone much older.
A few things, unfortunately I don't have time to write a full response, I may do a blog post based on one of the ideas you bring up.
1 - "something that for him would have been obscure" - that made me laugh.
2 - Anthony Harvey http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0367431/
3 - You have to remember film like anything is an art and that means everyone thinks something different about the people that make it and what they like. We can have a more "educated" opinion but that doesn't make us right, it just makes it our responsibility to have a broader perspective on the world of cinema so we can see the millions of influences and how they affect things.
I'd type more but I am on my way out! Gotta go! I still wanna read one of your screenplays dude!
Thanks for clearing up the mysterious Harvey, Megan. After looking at his filmography, I'm even more puzzled by what the guy in the pretzel shop said. He edited a few landmark films, but, as a director, he only made 4 feature films. Out of those 4, The Lion In Winter would seem to be his greatest accomplishment.
'We can have a more "educated" opinion but that doesn't make us right, it just makes it our responsibility to have a broader perspective on the world of cinema so we can see the millions of influences and how they affect things.' You know, I agree with you on the whole, but, at the same time, my position isn't based solely on my own opinion. It's based on well-documented factual evidence. I can agree that not everyone has to like the same things and think the same way, but, having said that, certain things go beyond opinions.
For example, just because a certain mutual acquaintance hates the Beatles doesn't mean that his statement about them not being influential is accurate.
Opinion: Chubbs thinks that the Beatles' music is terrible and that they had no influence except on boy bands of the 1990's.
Fact: The Beatles were one of the defining bands of the 20th century, redefined rock and roll, and influenced thousands of people the world over, musicians and non-musicians alike.
I'm not saying that the first half of the opinion is invalid, because it's a value judgment, and, as such, isn't right or wrong because it varies from person to person. I can, however, take issue with the second half of that opinion because it's fundamentally inaccurate in an historical context.
That's all I'm saying about Bergman. No one has to like/dislike his films, but his influence has surpassed mere opinion, and, in light of historical evidence, has become fact.
...and I'm honored that something I said might inspire you to write an article.
It's because I've been dealing with some people at work and my movie tastes too. Don't know if I'll get around to writing it...
I think you also need to remember though you are assuming that this person has the same film education you do. You can't expect someone with a different background in film to know everything you know.
But I have heard a lot about Anthony Harvey being infleuntial before. I haven't seen it but I have been told Lion in Winter is a big deal.
So, I'm a little late here...but oh well. :)
I think that the answer to your question lies in a question. Honestly, the best way to discuss an issue is not by telling someone "Nope, you're wrong and here's why," even if you are right. Instead, challenge them to reflect upon and then articulate their own thoughts by asking them questions. For instance, "Why do you think that?" Or "Have you considered _________" I believe questions are usually better than propositions in this context because they promote conversation and not argumentation. When someone if questioned, it allows him or her to work through their thoughts and opinions, hopefully coming to a better understanding. Or maybe they will totally school you and you will end up with a better understanding. Anyway, that's my answer. :)
And p.s.: I've been told that Lion in Winter is an amazing film. (for what that's worth)
I concur. You were on the mark.
That guy should have at least spent more time backing up his claims. He sounds pretty pretentious.
It's not a matter of him stating an opinion, but it's a matter of stating a claim that goes against common agreement. Your Alfred Hitchcock comparison was well done. You may not enjoy his, but you cannot deny his influence).
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